Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:57 am

Linc wrote:Sweet. :D Can the same procedure be used for any materials to be inlayed? I assume it can.

the process i did for the brass , yes



To back up a little, with the pewter, can it be used as a faux wire inlay or would it be just as easy or easier to actually do wire inlay?

do wire inlay is better , pewter will just pop out if you try an pour it for a wire look .


Also, I am pleading total ignorance here, but does the pewter stick to the barrel when casting the nose piece? Or does it merely take on a perfect contour of the barrel?
:oops:


it takes on the perfect contour of the barrel , it will not stick to metals and infatc if you dont make anchor points it will not stick to wood well eather .
the barrel will lift right out of the pewter as long as plug any of the hole s that the pewter may flow into and thus anchor the barrel
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Linc » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:59 am

Thank you Captchee. I thought that it might not stick to the barrel as you didn't mention anything about it. But I wanted to make sure. :D

I also have another question with casting the pewter nose cap. What would be best way to cast a nose cap for a gun with a ramrod hole?
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:54 pm

most times i dont cast a hole in the cap for the RR. i pack the rr hole with wet paper so it cannot fill up .after the nose cap is cast, i slide the rr down the thimbles tell it comes in contact with the new nose cap . mark the location and drill the hole .
however if your worried about that . just place a metal Rod , the same size as your wood rr into the hoe making sur it rest not only in the hole but into one of the RR thimbles . then pack paper around the rod to seal around the rod so that pewter will not flow into the hole . then make your paper fraim and pour the pewter .
WARNING eather way you have to seal the RR hole or the pewter will run all the way to the back of the stock .
so if like on the pistol im doing , your not going have a RR then you still have to fill the hole with a paper or wood plug
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Linc » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:03 pm

Thanks Captchee. That's pretty much what I figured. It doesn't hurt to ask.LOL.
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:52 am

inlaying wire isnt that hard Linc. it does take time and a slow hand . Un like these large inlays, you dont actualy remove wood . basicly you just spread the wood and drive in the wire . which isnt really wired but a thin flate strip . Now if we were to say do wire on this pistol , which im not . but lets say we were. then i would draw my design. Make darn sure the design was what i wanted , then start spreading the wood . each gunsmith has his own prefrances on tools to do that , for hard wood , i have made small punches/ blades that i drive into the design. but for this soft of would i would just go to the exacto place.going over the about an inch of the design at a time , to the depth of the strip of metal. I would then prep the metal by dragging a file along the sides so as to make samll teeth that will better grab the wood . becouse this wood is so soft , it needs alittle help to hold our wire .so alittle wite glue is rubbed into the opening . then the wires is shaped to the part of the design your working on, cut and lightly driven into the opening . leaving just a small bit of the wire above the wood, wont hurt anything if the wire you are using is a harder wire like say brass . in fact myself when doing brass wire , i leave it just a tad high and then file it to the stock . with very soft wire , like silver that has been Brought to Dead soft , you have to be carful leaving it high ,as the wire is so soft its easly bent over . so now you tapped in the wire leaving the forward section where you will continue along opening the wood , up and out of the wood .once you have about another inch opened , then apply alittle glue and drive alittle more of the wire down. Now make sure you plan things out . you dont want to be trying to join pieces of wire if you dont have to .when you find you have to and there will be times you will , makw sure you miter the ends so that the new piece fits eather under or over the old . this way you get a clean , for the most part invisable joint .

wire inlays can be anything , brass , silver, Alum,Copper, Tin ,. normaly when it comes to wire stock , i buy my metals in plates through K&S displays at the hardware stores . well but for the silver . the thinkness of the plate becomes the thickness of the wire inlay , i then use tin snips to cut the width of the wire , which now becomes how deep i want the wire to go .

wire is not hard to do , it just takes practice and a slow hand to do it well .. exspecialy with dead soft metals .
so i would sugest to folks to just get a piece of Alum. Plate 1/32-1/16 thick . cut it in approx .1/8 wide strips and practice inleting it into a piece of scrap Hard wood . you will find that in no timeyou will be ready to inlet wire onto a stock
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Linc » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:23 am

Thanks for the description on doing the wire inlay. Sounds like more than I want to tackle for a whie. :D
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby gameslayer » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:01 pm

Still watching ,it is interesting, Thanks for posting !
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby William Three Coons » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:12 pm

I didn't want to clutter the building thread, but wanted to say I saw whatb yu have done, and am impressed.

That CVA is gonna be a nice gun when you get it done.
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Spotted Bull » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:22 pm

Cap I was wondering if bone or antler could be used as an inlay, perhaps something that is scrimmed?
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:08 pm

yep you can . as i said anything can be an inlay
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby TradRag » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:20 pm

This is just AWESOME Captchee! Thank you sir!
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:15 am

your more then welcome glad to be of help
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Spotted Bull » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:13 pm

Also, what are some good sources of pewter, and what type pewter should we use in nose caps and the like?
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby gameslayer » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:11 pm

I see I did not miss anything ,My electric has been down since a storm, it looks like the build is done ,all but final assembly ,thanks for teaching us some interesting gun building tricks!
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:18 pm

Roaring Bull wrote:Also, what are some good sources of pewter, and what type pewter should we use in nose caps and the like?


well IMO food grade pewter is the best but for nose caps and such , any will do even babit

watch for pewter cups . old pates , candle stick , belt buckles and such
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby RckyMtn Joe » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:35 am

I am new to this forum and just found this thread (these two threads). What an engrossing, absorbing build along. It made me actually believe I could do it too. That old piece of junk sure turned into a beautiful piece of work---it is amazing what the hands of a real crafstman can accomplish.

Thanks for the wonderful threads---I thoroughly enjoyed every last word of them.

Joe
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:37 am

Again , thank you all for the kind words
But
Seriously folks , this revamp has nothing in it that any one of you could not do .
Its very basic
If any one of you want to do this on your own piece, I will be more then willing to help you do it step by step .
We we can do it right here on this forum . Ill walk you through it , step by step
It doesn’t have to be a pistol either it can be a rifle shotgun , musket , what have you ..
You seen the change that can happen to the CVA bobcats . All that takes is to let you imagination take hold and tell your hands what to do
A couple years back I wanted a flintlock SXS . I have built a number for folks with high end barrels , new locks and such. But after buying the parts and adding in my labor , the start at 2000.00
Its pretty sad really when a person cant afford one of his own guns . But I would say that 95% of the gun smiths out there are in the same boat .
So what did I do ? I watched around one day I came a cross an old CVA percussion SXS in 20 gage . I was able to pick it up for 100.00
The stock wasn’t much good .and the locks would just barely pop caps . But I wanted the parts . The friend that was with me at the time thought I had lost my mind .
But the reality of it was that I had already built this SXS in my mind 1000 times and when I saw that old gun there on the wall , that no buddy wanted , I wanted it . Basically because I saw what was really there with my imagination .

so here is what it started out looking like .
Now no the barrels did not look like that . they were blue when i bought it but the bluing was fairly warn .
this picture was taken after i had started work on re doing the barrels . it dawned on me i didnt have any befor or after shots . so i set the barrels back on the stock to give folks an idea of what i started with .

so here is basicly what i bought for 100 bucks
Image

here is what i saw that no one else did . Now im not trying to toot my own horn here . what im trying to do show you folks that when you owww and awww over the custom guns but you just cant aford one . look to what you have for the answer .
the stock for this converssion i bout off of e-bay for 15 bucks as a plank . Again , this plank was up for sale for about a month . it started out at 100.00 but got no bids . then it dropped to 75.00 no bids . next time i saw it the fella was asking 45.00 starting . it had a Knott up along the barrel channel where he had drawn out the rifle stock . BUT the way i figured it , that knott would cut completely out with my sxs . so the next time it came up i offerd 15.00 in the closing minutes and i got it .
the most exspensive part of this peice was the new locks . the ran me 250 .00 for the set . everything else came right off the original CVA shotgun .
now maybe im wrong here but i dont know anyone who sels a SXS flinlock or for that mater would make on for under 400 .00 and that includes me .
but for less then 400 .00 i have a wonderful 20 gage flinlock SXS that is a flat grouse killer .
its all about whats in your head . for get about the i cant , consintrate on the I can and turst me , you can


Image

Image

Image
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Spotted Bull » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:23 am

Very fine looking piece Cap!! I too have been pining away over a SxS flinter. I don't do much bird hunting so I believe that I want a .58 double rifle.....maybe some day!
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby mfwing82 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:06 pm

Captchee you have done it again. I have to stop reading your posts . It is contagious
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:08 am

LOL , well i hope thats a good thing lol :D
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Dave Bulla » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:46 pm

Ok, gotta know, what are the basic steps going from a percussion to a flint lock?

Does the nipple housing just unscrew and you screw in a new screw with the flash hole in it? What about fitting the pan to the barrel? Looks GREAT!
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:39 pm

Dave Bulla wrote:Ok, gotta know, what are the basic steps going from a percussion to a flint lock?

Does the nipple housing just unscrew and you screw in a new screw with the flash hole in it? What about fitting the pan to the barrel? Looks GREAT!



well depends on what type of breech the piece has to start with .
See a drum type bolster basically is a modification to percussion , based of the flintlock .
IE to convert to percussion, one would cut the pan off the lock , remove the frizzen and frizzen spring , drill and tap the flash hole . Screw in a drum type bolster “ CVA/ traditions use a drum bolster. Part the nipple screws into ” . then reform the cock into a hammer .
To go back , you just basically reverse the process . . Unscrew the bolster , make a flash hole liner to fit the hole , then replace the lock .
Now with this SXS it did not have the drum bolster , but a snail bolster / improved breech . IE the nipple screwed right to the tops of the breech plugs . The flash channel went down at an angle then forwards . So basically what you have to do is make small plugs . They must be faced , just as one would do the breech plug . These are then screwed in replacing the nipples . I then counter sunk the heads and welded them into the plugs . Then came back and filed everything back to round .
I then drilled into the side of the plugs to the main flash channel .
Tapped the hole for a flash hole liner .
The barrels then are inlet into the stock . Once they are inlet , you then position the locks so the flash hole split’s the TOP of the pan .
in the first photo , i had alreade welded in the nipple plugs . drilled and installed the flashole liners .
if you look closly , you can see the hammers fall to the tops of the barrel . thats where the old nipples were placed . you can also see that the locks set on the side and go under the barrels . but if you look at the new stock , you see that the locks set on the sides of the barrels IE a wider stock

If your asking can you just replace the locks on an existing SXS , the answer would be for the most part , no .
Normally percussion locks set on the side and under the barrel . For a flintlock , the stock must be wider so the locks can set along the barrels
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Dave Bulla » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:21 pm

Well, you've got me thinking again...

I've got a couple old 22's that aren't worth much but have a lot of blueing loss. I might just try the blacking process with the bleach on one of them for "edumacational poiposes".

Would I need to get down to pure white metal everywhere or can I just degrease and go? I'm thinking I would sand/polish the barrel to a high gloss just for cosmetic reasons (There is some very minor pitting) but might do less polishing on parts hidden by the stock. Of course I hate doing stuff that way so I'd probably end up polishing the whole thing down to the last screw head but for argument sake, would I have to? Some cheap guns are awfully rough around the bottom of the action with loads of machine or grind marks. I'd rather not break out any power tools or files to smooth parts like that and wonder if not getting them polished would matter?
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:47 am

Well you would need to strip what’s left of the bluing. A little navel jelly would do that
Yes you should de grease prior to starting your brown .
I wouldn’t polish if your doing a rust .. I would jus sand the parts with emery paper or draw file out the light pitting . Rusting works best when it has alittle bit to bight into .
Carding between applications of a browning solution is what gives a nice smooth surface.

Also remember now , the Clorox doesn’t give a black . What it does is when applied to a hot service, it stimulates BROWN iron oxide to grow .
That brown iron oxide is what coats the barrel or part and makes it brown ,..
Plumb brown, laurel mountain, water , sweat boxes , ,,, all they do is stimulate the growth of iron oxide .
Once you have the part browned to satisfaction , then you can make it black by Boiling the browned part in water .
What the hot water does is convert the brown iron oxide , to Black iron oxide. Boiling doesn’t add anymore rusting , it doesn’t nothing at all but change the color
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Dave Bulla » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:54 am

Well, I realize this is a really old topic but I've come back to it several times in the past to reference procedures but now all the pictures are gone from the original build! Any chance of getting them back up some way????
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Re: Hellooooo??, helooooo helooooo

Postby Captchee » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:07 am

Dave Bulla wrote:Well, I realize this is a really old topic but I've come back to it several times in the past to reference procedures but now all the pictures are gone from the original build! Any chance of getting them back up some way????


are you asking about the pistol build ?
if so you are wanting the thread titled where to start .
here is the link
http://www.tradrag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=506

for the CVA bobcat complete restock from a plank, here is the link
http://www.tradrag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2377

building from a parts Assembly
http://www.tradrag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3196

all 3 tutorials are showing all the photos at my end . but if you continue to have issues , send me a PM and ill e-mail you the photos
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