knife build along

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knife build along

Postby oldpaths » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:51 pm

Alright here we go with this build along at the request of Greywolf.First let me say this is just a simple basic stock removal method build and nothing fancy but I'll do my best to go through the basics for the beginner knife maker as that is pretty much what I am.
First thing you will need is the stock such as a good ol file,ol buck saw blade or saw mill blade such as we will be useing in this build,I prefer something older and of carbon and I find most of my material at the local flea markets and usually pretty cheap ;) Here is a pic of the stock we will be using it is an old saw mill blade that I have already used to make quite a few knife's
!cid__0701091911.jpg
it's the one thats already been hacked on

Now that have your stock you will need a design such as the drop point that we will be making here
!cid__0823091550.jpg
I just traced a pattern that I saved from another build

Next thing I need to do is remove my knife from my stock and I just use my 4" grinder with a metal cutting disc,just be carefull it can be a dangerous process if the grinder kicks back on ya or the disc jams up and breaks in peices
!cid__0823091551.jpg
I try and just cut the main chunk of steel out leaveing all the lines of my pattern intacked and then grind down carefully to my lines
!cid__0823091557.jpg
here is what I got from the removal
!cid__0823091603.jpg
and here I am carefully grinding down to my lines and might I say skillfully takeing a pic at the same time (LOL!)

Thats about all I got time for today but I'll be back soon as I can.
Last edited by oldpaths on Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: knife build along

Postby Greywolf » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:05 am

I'm with ya so far........
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Re: knife build along

Postby TradRag » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:06 am

Greywolf wrote:I'm with ya so far........


Me too!
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Re: knife build along

Postby VT Surf-N-Turf » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:12 am

Greywolf wrote:I'm with ya so far........

I'm there.
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Re: knife build along

Postby oldpaths » Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:48 pm

Back at it,now that I have my knife all profiled I need to drill some holes for my handle pins but this saw mill blade is pretty hard so I will need to anneal it.;for this build I will be using my one brick forge but you can use any fire you got as long as you get it hot and I mean a nice glowing red but not too hot to where its trying to sparkle or melt,now I will take it straight from my fire and place in my little preheated toaster oven so that it dont cool too fast because if it cools too fast it will probably still be too hard to drill,or you can just use any means of fire to get it hot and leave it buried in the ashes untill it completely cools down.For this knife I will be heating the whole piece of material and tempering the blade afterwards but in the past I have been successful by heating only the handle area for drilling purposes.Here is a pic of the knife going into my big fancy forge
!cid__0823091616.jpg

Now that we have our blank properly annealed we can go ahead and decide where we want to put the pins and drill which is what I'd recommend but I got excited and went ahead and began fileing my angle for my blade and since I have properly softened the steel it goes fairly easy with my hand file,some makers have and use nice belt sander's for this part or some sort of jig to get the desired angle but I just eyeball it and with some practice and patience you can get a pretty good blade worked down.Here is a pic of my precision method of fileing an angle on a knife blade
!cid__0823091636.jpg
not too bad if I do say so myself (LOL)

I'll be back once I figure out where I want to put the pins for my handle and what size and how many or maybe a lanyard hole or.... well I think you get the picture
Last edited by oldpaths on Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: knife build along

Postby Lance Coleman » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:42 pm

For yall that aint catchin what Larry means by any old fire. He means build a fire (like a brush fire or with fire wood) get a nice fat bed of coals glowing. Now bury the blade in the coals and put some more wood on top of it to get her burning again. (not just a little one hour blaze) Now let it die out on it's own..... COMPLETELY. Come back the next day and ramble through the ashes to find your blade... *IF* there's still smoke smoldering?? leave it alone!! It needs to completely cool while insulated inside the ashes. You need to be able to just reach down by hand and pick up a nice cool blade out of the ashes. If ya can't do this?? leave it alone until you can.

If it comes out warped?? Thats OK too (means ya got it hot!) just put her in a bench vice and straighten her gently. It's anealed now and easier to work.

Personally I put the whole dang saw blade in the fire cuz them suckers will eat grinder blades left right and fron tof center as well.

Looks great Larry!! ya need me to test it in the field this year when ya done?? :lol:
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Re: knife build along

Postby woodsman1031 » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:54 pm

Great build a long Oldpaths!!




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Re: knife build along

Postby oldpaths » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:13 pm

Thanks fellars, and thanks Lance for clarification on the fire (I agree with ya),maybe one these days I can send ya one to test out but this one is already promised to another friend.Today I got the pin holes drilled and I got kinda happy with the drill cause two pins would be plenty but I like to change things up sometimes, (BE VERY CAREFULLwhen drilling cause that drill can turn that blade into a finger/hand chopper real fast!) then I done a little bit of vine file work at request of the friend I'm making it for,I plan to re harden the blade and temper tomorrow if I get time.Anyway heres some more pics for now
!cid__0825091939.jpg
good thing the steel annealed properly or I'd still be drill'n all those holes,and you can see my new helper who dont seem too impressed (LOL!)
0826091826.jpg
sorry about the quality of the pic (cell phone camera) the file work really looks better than this pic shows
Last edited by oldpaths on Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: knife build along

Postby Okie » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:35 pm

Lookin' GOOD Oldpaths! Keep it comin'.
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Re: knife build along

Postby Greywolf » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:57 pm

Wait.............Wait........... Ok, I just got it figgered out I really don't need a front porch rail to hold the steel,
Lance said use of a vice ok.... I got couple of those....... "Vine work"? as in round files and 3 corner files makin that decorative scroll stuff on the back? Which file work better? rat-tail files?

I know this is mundane stuff for you guys but I'm still figgerin how to drill a hole in the cinder block without bustin it..

I'm still with ya..... I'm gonna copy this so feel free to post lots of pichures
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Re: knife build along

Postby VT Surf-N-Turf » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:01 am

Greywolf wrote:I know this is mundane stuff for you guys but I'm still figgerin how to drill a hole in the cinder block without bustin it.


Yeah, about that one brick forge. Can you go into more detail about that? Thanks. I'm lovin this so far.
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Re: knife build along

Postby oldpaths » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:47 pm

Greywolf,yes for the file work (that scroll stuff on top of blade)all I use is some chainsaw files and 3 corner files rat tails too and man with a little practice you can put some neat patterns on yer knives,here is a link to a how to vine file work a knife http://beknivessite2.homestead.com/vinefilework.html there's even one that shows ya how to file little arrow heads on yer knife.
VT surf-n-turf, man that little forge is neat and just the ticket for smaller blades like most of us carry and there's not much to it,all ya gotta do is get ya one of the soft fire brick and woller out a hole length wise big enough for the size blades you plan on making and then woller out one about middle ways big enough for a propane torch tip and you got yerself a forge,now there are a few different kinds of fire brick and some are so hard you would think you were trying to drill through supermans bicept,I think the kind Im using is called a refractory fire brick (not sure) I got mine from an old furnace where I work and it was so soft you could make those holes with a butter knife! (not kidding !)
Back to the build,today when I got home I fired up the forge cause now I gotta turn that annealed blade back to a hard blade by heating to nonmagnetic and quenching,now some folks like to use various types of quenchant I just use motor oil and some folk preheat their quenchant all for varying reasons needless to say that we could go on and on about treating steel for a long time so lets get back to this knife,here is some more pics from the hardening process
0827091819.jpg
only a matter of seconds in the little forge!
0827091820.jpg
under a minute and already hot enough that my magnet will not stick to it!
0827091820a.jpg
my favorite part,just be sure and go straight from the forge to the oil and dont give it time to cool
Some guy's like to dip blade tip first I prefer blade edge first either way works fine. Now after I let it cool all the way down to where I can pick it up with my hand.Now at this point the blade is very hard and brittle to the point that if you drop it on concrete it could actually break or chip so now I have to temper the blade and I have my oven ready and warmed up
0827091832.jpg
just a little toaster oven that you can buy new here for under 20 bucks and I added the thermometer so I can check the temp

Thats all I got for today yall,I got to go check on my blade,more to come soon!
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Re: knife build along

Postby Greywolf » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:58 pm

So a 350 deg toaster oven for XX:xx Hours will "temper the steel," which is softening it some(so it's not brittle?) but not to where you can file it like when it was annealed..............right?
How long does it stay in the toaster oven? and does it stay at 350? when it stays in for X hours or minutes you just shut it off and let it cool down to cold steel or till you can pick it up with bare hands?
and the handle is still drillable soft?

BTW, Alpha Female is POed... she thought she was getting a porch with a railing all around. :rolf:
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Re: knife build along

Postby oldpaths » Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:42 pm

Well GW,you got some good questions there and I will try to answer.For this particular steel and through trial and error I have concluded that for tempering to the hardness of my personal preference that 350 deg. for 2 hours usually gets me what I'm looking for and by that I mean the color of the steel during tempering but different steels require different recipes,now if you know what kinda steel you got you can usually find a temper reference chart for the amount of heat and temper time and amount of cycles that will get you in the ball park online just do a google search for how to temper a knife for what ever kinda steel you will be using.One of my most trusted ways of determining the correct blade temper without using a hardness tester is color,here is a color chart that I like to reference
temperchrt.gif
I want my blade to turn somewhere between the straw to deep straw color
temperchrt.gif (25.69 KiB) Viewed 20658 times

Another good reason for the glass door on the little toaster oven so I dont have to keep opening the door to check color.and yes once I reach complete temper time/color I just turn off the oven and let cool all the way.
Now back to where we left off,after we quench the blade when removed from the oil it will be rather nasty and possibly have some scale on it that needs to be cleaned off by a little sanding before the temper so you can see the color change I actually buffed just a little on this one before I stuck it in the oven but thats not a have to thing. Here are some pics after the temper I hope you can see the goldish straw color
0828091910.jpg
Im happy with the color achieved on this one

For your other questions,yes the handle is still drillable soft and the blade is still hard but you can file it's just not very easy to file now.
I had really hoped to finish this up this weekend but my friend who I'm making this knife for has some special wood brought back from a mission trip that he wants to use for the handles and I should be getting it early next week and we'll get this build wrapped up.
By the way GW you oughta go ahead and build that little lady her porch with railing allround!! :rolf:
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Re: knife build along

Postby Greywolf » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:01 pm

Yessir...I was gonna do that, but I had hand surgery yesterday so I can't swing a hammer for at least 2-3 weeks. Hopefully she'll forget by then.........but then again, them women folk got memories like elephants.... they never forget or let you forget either :cry:

I was playin with some saw blade material in the cave just seein if I could see the difference in the blade colors heatin it up like ya said. Yep sure can, and found out a ace bandage catchs fire purty darn easy too !!
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Re: knife build along

Postby Greywolf » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:04 pm

Is it next week yet?...huh..huh....is it? :rolf:

When you heated the knife in the oven to anneal it where did you put it to cool down real slow? Lance made it sound like if it cools too fast it won't be soft?
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Re: knife build along

Postby TradRag » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:45 pm

...and found out a ace bandage catchs fire purty darn easy too !!
:rolf: OUCH!! Watch out down there in the 'cave!' You got an exit window in case things heat up?
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Re: knife build along

Postby Greywolf » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:00 pm

TradRag wrote:
You got an exit window in case things heat up?


Oh yeah, It was the gauze wrap that was the one, not ace wrap, just the edge, no big deal. I'm havin so much fun heatin stuff up.
I even got me a outside little firepit for a coal fire, only problem is it's the beginin of the rainy season. Thats why I ask the question about how long to cool down........... hate to have the coals drowned 3-4 hours later and the blade not soft.


and OH...Is it next week yet? huh..huh..huh.. :rolf:
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Re: knife build along

Postby oldpaths » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:19 pm

Sorry for the wait fellars,My friend brought the wood monday after work and I aint had alot of spare time but I'm about to wrap this knife up,by the way my friends name is Jim and he's a new member here so yall say hi to him when ya get a chance.He's been helping me out with trad archery (he can shoot that recurve!)
This wood block is from a mission trip (I think from Africa) and as I dont know my exotic woods very well I think it mabe cocoblo maybe one of yall can tell us?
0831091857a.jpg
I hope it's big enough to get a handle out of! LOL!
Next I ripped a couple of slabs from the block about a 1/2" thick then traced my handle onto them,I always oversize everything when cutting wood especially cause everybody knows ya can always take more off but its kinda hard to put back on.
0831091921.jpg
Carefully cutting with scrollsaw

Next I like to even up the two halves at the ends where the blade and the handle meet cause once you bet it all pinned and glued up its kinda hard to sand that area
0831091951.jpg
preshaped so I dont have to mess with that area and scratch up my knife

Now I need to drill some holes in these purdy handles,I just clamp one slab and drill through the predrilled steel and after I get a couple of holes I like to put some pins in to make sure I keep everything lined up nice and even,for this handle I'm using an 1/8" bit and I found some alluminum poprivets laying around here that fit perfect so I think I'll use them.I have used everything from nails to home wireing for pins whatever fits is what I say!
0901091856.jpg
After drilling that side then I line up the other while leaveing some pins in the first half and the steel then drill trough all three pieces placeing more pins as I go
0901091909.jpg
and now I'm gonna submit this post before I lose all this typeing again cause there is something going on with my internet and I sometimes get a bunch of stuff done and CLICK IT'S ALL GONE and have to start over :cry:
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Re: knife build along

Postby oldpaths » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:59 pm

Wheeew!! glad that worked,cause I'm not done yet.For this knife I will be using epoxy
0901091945.jpg
I have made a bunch of knives using this kind and others without any problems or complaints so far.(probably shouldnt have said that LOL!
Before I mix the epoxy I like to grind the handle area of the knife and just rough it up a bit and then I score the inside of the wood for better adhesion
0901091938.jpg
using the tip of my trusty case muskrat to score the handle wood
0901091939.jpg
I also like to rough up my pins a bit too,tried to take a pic but it's not very good
0901092003.jpg

This is where it gets messy for me anyway cause I get epoxy all over me, I lay out all my parts and mix my epoxy and generously spread a good coat'n and quickly put it all together making sure I got enough pin sticking through and clamp everything down nice and tight.
0901092001.jpg
0901092000.jpg
Now I know that epoxy said 5 minute but I'm tired and think I'll check on it tomorrow.
I almost forgot GW,Lance is correct when he says it needs to cool slowly to anneal properly and the method of leaving in the ashes until you can pick it up with your hands has always worked best for me but I'm impatient sometimes,when I say I put it in my oven and let cool slowly I usually leave it in there for about 3 hours at about 250 deg. then turn it off and let it cool all the way right there and most of the time it works pretty good for me.
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Re: knife build along

Postby Greywolf » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:50 pm

I'm with ya up to this point, I'm seein stuff already happenin. I bought a firepit at Home despit for $22.00 that should be good enough to build a small continous fire then if it rains I can set the plywood over the top on the table so it won't get drowned.

Might just work
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Re: knife build along

Postby highnoonhunter » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:41 pm

Nice work OP!
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Re: knife build along

Postby VT Surf-N-Turf » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:48 am

This is Great. I'm still Love'n it and can't wait to see how you finish it.
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Re: knife build along

Postby Okie » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:05 am

Still with ya Oldpaths. It's lookin' good.
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Re: knife build along

Postby Greywolf » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:57 pm

Ok, First off I have no idea where the first two pictures went they were the knife that I drew on the saw blade.

So I'll jump to the cutting of the blank.... the first cut was across the top, I found out you can score a saw blade then snap it off. now I know why they use saw blades to make knives !!!! ok here is cut number two...
Image

Little better view, first time using a dremel tool cut off wheel..........it's so tiny. I was going to use my big honken grinder but I wanna see how this works.............miniature style :rolf:

Image

Like I said you can snap the steel along the scored line, just go easy, the pipe wrench is just because of my injured hand
easy back and forth it'll snap right off
Image

See in no time at all you got a roughed out knife.......darn looks like I know what the heck I'm doin huh?
Image

I guess the next step is the semi final shaping on the grinder.......oh when you do this don't wear slippers, the sparks burn like crazy

Image

Pretty soon you have a nice looking blank

Image

It just didn't feel right in my hand(forget the bandage part) so I removed some more end and put a drop down on the end to keep the knife from sliding as I added this

Image

Ok, thats where I'm at right now, I need to build a fire and anneal this blank so I need to go to the store and buy a package of hotdogs just in case the fire dept shows up, So I can say, by their own regs I can cook on a open fire. Who said we former Hoosiers aren't smart !!
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Re: knife build along

Postby oldpaths » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:06 pm

Way to go GW,I like your design!!
Today when I got home I took all those clamps off the knife and used a 4" grinder with a course sand'n disc to get rid of all the excess glue and work the thickness and profile down to a more desired size
0902091820.jpg

Still kinda ugly but I got some more sand'n to do but I recommend to put something on that blade before any sand'n or grind'n so no one ends up with one of those bandages on their hand!
0902091832a.jpg
0902091832b.jpg
0902091839.jpg
So off to my belt sander,I Thank the Lord for this sander
0902091849.jpg
Now after I get it worked down pretty close to the size I like I start hand sand'n
0902091859.jpg

Now I have sanded till it looks,and feels right in the hand
0902091953.jpg

All that I need to do now is put a finish on the wood and for this one I think I will use the famous super glue finish.Be back tomorrow with that.
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Re: knife build along

Postby Okie » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:29 pm

Great lookin knife OP, can't wait to see it all finished up. My address is.... :D
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Re: knife build along

Postby TradRag » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:06 pm

S W E E T ! Wasn't sure about all the pins in the handle but boy is she pretty.
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Re: knife build along

Postby Greywolf » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:54 am

So I guess now I need to anneal the blank correct? I was gonna make a fire in the firepit. but the wind is blowing real nice here, 15-25 mph with gusts to 30+ so maybe tomorrow. I need to go to Savers (our version of a Good Will store) and see if they have a toaster oven.

This is gonna be a fun project
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Re: knife build along

Postby VT Surf-N-Turf » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:04 am

Mighty nifty! Great job and a beautiful knife. I can't wait to see your "famous" finish.
Greywolf, you beat me to it but nice job. When I get some time I plan on do'in the same thing! Can't wait to see how yours turns out too.
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