Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

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Wade Phillips
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Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Wade Phillips » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:16 pm

Doc just suggested that I send him that stashed 52# 1960 Kodiak so could test it for me for 10-20 years or so.

Actually, I was just going to ask Doc about sending that bow to him. However, I had something very different in mind.

I was thinking of cutting down the tennis ball grip and cutting down the shelf on that 52# to be like Fred Bear’s shelf, then sending the bow to Doc to spray over the cut down area because he refinished the bow several years ago.

Then was thinking of sending it around the country in 2010 for other guys to have a chance to use it or hunt with it, sort of like Mike did with his Little Delta Bow.

It would give several guys (right handers) a chance to shoot and hunt with a 1960 Kodiak and would also give guys a chance to shoot a Kodiak with a shelf cut down.

Everyone who uses the bow could sign it on the belly side. I had Glenn St. Charles and Marv Clyncke sign it the year I bought it at Compton.

We might even be able to talk Trap into making a Super Tall Feather Rest around 3/4” tall so guys could stick it on the shelf if they don’t want to shoot off the cut down shelf.

Now, after Doc’s suggestion, my only concern is him wanting to keep the bow for the entire year….

Doc - What do you think of my crazy idea ?

What do you other guys think of leaving the shelf original or cutting it down?

The other two candidates for this Traveling 1960 Kodiak are a 48# and Floyd’s 55#, both will need a complete refinish which would likely delay the bow from starting it rounds.

Let me know what you guys think and we’ll get one of these 1960 Kodiaks on the road.

Think I will build a box with wooden sides for it so hopefully it holds up to the traveling…
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Raineman » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:47 pm

I'd love be a part of that Wade. 52#'er sounds great. Sign me up for late September if you can and maybe I can chalk up a whitetail, groundgrizzly, or squirrel. Heck, while its in these parts, maybe Droptine, Migrabill, reddogge, Tony W, and anyone else that lives in earshot might get a turn.

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by TradRag » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:01 pm

I am game... anytime from April 6th to May 6th (Spring Turkey). That would be great. Even if that didn't pan out and I could just shoot it for a few days that would be great too. sign me up. :D
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Simon » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:09 pm

I wonder if BowDoc would consider this '60 Kodiak for this year’s Quebec Bear Quest IV? If so I could have the pleasure to shoot a few arrows out of it while he is cleaning the pots and pans.

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by goosebuster » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:22 pm

I think it`s a crazy idea. (only because I`m left handed) Go for it Wade.

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Wade Phillips » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:33 pm

Jim - I will start a ledger and put you down for late Sept.

Bryan - Put you down for sometime from April 6 to May 6.

Simon - Sending it along with Doc for Bear Quest IV is a great idea. We'll see what he says. You or Doc will have to give me the dates.

Ken, Originally I was really thinking of having a matched pair, right hand and left hand in the box so you could take your pick or try both. However, the only LH 1960 Kodiak I have is 36#. Let me know if 36# will work for your or if it might be a little light for your hunting weight... :lol:
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Cody Roiter » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:06 pm

Hell yes.. Me too I would love to spend some time with it..( look out small game here I come :rolf: )


Cody

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by TimberlineX » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:22 pm

Wade, what a tremendous idea! Private collections preserve vintage items, and that’s crucial. But making these sorts of vintage bows available countrywide, along with disseminating information, may do more to promote vintage archery gear than anything else. Each recipient should be encouraged to show the bow to as many like-minded friends as possible.

If I didn’t already have several 1960 Kodiaks, I’d signed up in a heartbeat.

I would vote to leave the bow’s shelf and grip pretty much original. Another thought would be to take, say, a 1965 Kodiak and cut the shelf area down to Fred Bear's personal bow specs and then make that “Fred-ized” bow available in the same manner as you’re proposing for this 1960 Kodiak.

Grant Young was kind enough to lend me one of his Fred-ized Super Kodiaks and I’ve been having a ball shooting arrows off my knuckle, just like Fred did, with that bow. It’s given me a special insight into exactly how Fred Bear did things. I imagine others would also enjoy that.

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by goosebuster » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:34 pm

Wade, 36# might be too light for deer but I think I could kill a turkey with it. Or you could just send the RH, I can shoot both RH or LH just prefer LH Put me down for spring turkey, late March-April. and do`nt send it I`ll pick it up. (another reason to stop by your place). THANKS! Ken

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by 4runr » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:17 pm

I'd feel honored to be a part of this. Oct would work for me. Thanks for doin this Wade!
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by bowdoc » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:29 pm

Simon and I would be in Que'bec during june not quite sure of the dates as yet but I'll be there for 3 weeks myself.bd

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by JavelinaHink » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:33 pm

Wade... 8-) put me down for spring turkey and maybe some carp shooten..I'll get the dates....Hink.
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Wade Phillips » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:43 pm

Bill – The original traveling bow was Mike’s idea that he used for the Little Delta Bow a number of years ago. I just borrowed Mike’s idea for this bow, as I figured it would be a good thing with it as it is just catching dust here in the Arsenal.

Cody, Ken, Kenny, Doc, Simon, Hink – You are all in. I’ll get an updated itinerary here this evening. Hopefully I haven’t missed anyone.

What do you guys think?

Leave the shelf as is or cut her down like Fred”s?

Leave the fat grip or skinny it up?

Put a quiver bushing or leave it a virgin?

Put a leather grip or leave it naked?

Retro Factory Camo the back of the bow or leave it exposed?


OK.... have I missed anyone so far ???


Ken – March / April Turkeys, will pick up
Bryan – Sometime from April 6 to May 6 Turkeys
Hink – Spring Turkeys
Simon & Doc – June Bear Quest IV
Jim – September late
Kenny – Make your reservation early
Cody – Make your reservation early
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by goosebuster » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:53 pm

I like um Cut down-Skinny-Virgin-Naked- Exposed. (The Bow)

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by reddogge » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:14 pm

Wade,
Like Jim says we could pass it around the Baltimore area in Sept in person. Please sign me up after Jim.

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Raineman » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:31 pm

Wade, I have to chime in on your questions.

To me, I have always believed that the preservation of the original "artifact" is of the utmost importance. Factory, unaltered examples of everything historic need to be preserved as they were originally made. That goes with bows, cars, toys, or anything that has survived in its original state to an antique or historic status.

There is a world class car show in Hershey, PA every year that some of you may have heard of and the only cars allowed in are ones that are 25 years old or older and are either original, restored original, and unmodified cars. I have seen them turn cars away for having aftermarket rims on them even though they were period correct. These are cars that are perfect examples of the day they rolled off the assembly line. My favorite class is the "HPOF" class. It is the "Historic Preservation of Original Features" class. It is an unjudged class that is for the sole purpose of allowing other enthusiasts to see the exact way they were, and are supposed to be. I have seen cars that were in horrible condition, yet were held in such high esteem due to the fact they were completely unaltered originals for others to use as THE reference point.

I cringe every time I see someone take an unaltered original bow and drill holes in them for a quiver, a compass, or any other "add on", whacking perfectly good tip overlays off, or altering the shelf. I have no problems with someone doing these types of things when the bow had been "butchered" up already back in the day, but to hack an original up with even so much as an unneeded refinish when it has so much historical value makes me literally vomit. Perfect original bows are THAT important to me, and I believe they should be held in very high regards, and treated with much much more respect than some people give them.

I've done a bit of my share modifying a few bows, but I have never and will never alter or violate the integrity of an original unaltered bow with drill or saw, and I will argue 'til I'm blue in the face anyone who want to do this to something I believe strongly should be preserved and respected as history.

My .02

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Cody Roiter » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:41 pm

Wade, Heck if no one is shooting it this winter I would use it for small game hunting.. As I am sure next fall it will be all booked up. If thats ok with you ??..

Let me know Wade, Post here or call me..

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Cody Roiter » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:45 pm

goosebuster wrote:I like um Cut down-Skinny-Virgin-Naked- Exposed.
Are we still talking about bows here :? :? :rolf: :rolf:

Me to I say no camo backing, No holes for a quiver.. But as for the cutdown arrow self maybe.. But do what you want Wade its your bow...
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Raincrow » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:56 pm

What a great Idea! I want to be put on the list also. How's the second and third week of November sound? Probably be chasing whitetails at KsBow's place in Kansas during that time period.

Thanks for the opportunity,

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Tony Wallace » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:03 pm

Hi Wade,

Anytime before the season opens in Maryland (coincides with my busiest time at school) would be better for me. I would use it on targets or stumps before it is blooded by the horde of fellow Marylanders who will hunt it during September. My most reflective time is mid-August (or at least before Labor Day).

As far as the modifications - I don't think you are making any rash decisions. After 50 years, you probably have weighed the pros and cons a few dozen times. You are making a well thought choice, right?

On the other hand, if you are pacing yourself, this urge to customize the Kodiak may be a sign of your midlife crisis. Are you looking at turbocharged Porsches too? What the hell, go for it.

(I plan to have my midlife crisis in 2012, when I turn 60 and the Earthlings are destroyed.)

Live long and prosper!

Oh yeah, did you make room in your calendar to shoot it yourself?

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Wade Phillips » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Jim - I agree with what you have said about original finish bows. They are in a much different class than the rescue missions that have been brought back to life and made to look as good as possible. Almost always, I like to leave the item in the condition that I found it with just cleaning off the real grime if necessary. I like my old stuff to look old, regardless if it is a bow, arrow, quiver, broadhead or anything else.

Although I did not see this bow until after it was refinished, it was obviously a rescue mission. This 60 has some nice wood, but not really exceptional. It looks good from a distance and Doc did a great job of refinishing it. But it does have a four filled holes, a few dings and the rear of the shelf is rounded off. You can see the flaws in these photographs and when you examine it closely. In my mind these flaws make it a candidate to be modified because it is already modified.

If anyone has any ideas about how to hide these flaws or hide them, please let me know.
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Above - One filled hole in lamination.
Above - One filled hole in lamination.
Above - One filled hole in riser overlay.
Above - One filled hole in riser overlay.
Above - One filled hole in lamination, one smaller filled hole in sight window, and ding in edge of glass.
Above - One filled hole in lamination, one smaller filled hole in sight window, and ding in edge of glass.
Above - Shelf rounded off at back.
Above - Shelf rounded off at back.
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by doug77 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:19 pm

Wade if you don't mind I wouldn't be afraid to use your LH Kodiak it during early deer season. No reason a great bow like that and some well tuned arrows couldnt kill a deer and I just happen to have a dozen bear arrows the are spined 35 - 40 pounds with bear broadheads on them
Another reason to use it How many LH 1960 Kodiaks are out their for sale.
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Raineman » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:19 pm

Wade Phillips wrote:
it was obviously a rescue mission.

it does have a four filled holes

In my mind these flaws make it a candidate to be modified because it is already modified.
Wade, sounds like we are 100% on the same page.

Did not want to come across as "high and mighty", and most certainly was not picking on any one individual. Just wanted to put my cards on the table since you posed those kinds of questions, and I'm kind of passionate about saving originals.

That is the perfect kind of bow to "fancy up", and I thank you for making it available to folks like me who will most likely never get to own a '60.

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Cody Roiter » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:22 pm

If anyone has any ideas about how to hide these flaws or hide them, please let me know.[/quote]

Wade I am not sure if there is a way you can hide the flaws or not..
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by 4runr » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:27 pm

Wade, the last two weeks in October would work for me. Either both or just one. Not pickey.

I like skinny grips like my '59 Grizzlys. I also like leather on the grips. Just my .02!
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by kurtbel5 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:04 pm

Would it be making the trip to MIkes pig lease? if that trip works out, I would like to sign up for a day with it there.(If all the stars align)
Thanks Wade great offer

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Wade Phillips » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:35 pm

kurtbel5 wrote:Would it be making the trip to MIkes pig lease? if that trip works out, I would like to sign up for a day with it there.(If all the stars align)
Thanks Wade great offer
Kurt - I was thinking the same thing about taking it to Mike's pig lease. Would be a great time for some of the guys to get to use it. Not sure of dates Mike has in mind for the pig hunt...

Calendar is filling up and this thread is just over 9 hours old...

Kurt – Pig hunt
Cody – Before March 1
Ken – March / April Turkeys, will pick up
Bryan – Sometime from April 6 to May 6 Turkeys
Hink – Spring Turkeys/Carp
Simon – June Bear Quest IV
Doc – June Bear Quest IV
Tony – August 15 to Labor Day
Jim – September late
Reddogge – After Jim
Kenny – October last two weeks
Terry – November 2nd & 3rd week
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by Rick P » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:53 pm

I'd be more than honored to put it through it's paces on a late season moose hunt or early spring(march) caribou hunt. Send it my way at the end of the year and I'll get it out in the cold. I'd like to see what doc dose as far as cutting down the shelf, but it will get shot no matter what you decide. I'd even give January wolf hunting a try if I had too.
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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by bowrayme » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:28 am

Wade I probably couldn't use it on any hunts but, I would appreciate shooting it for a couple of days when no one else is using it on their hunts. Thanks..

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Re: Anyone Interested in a Traveling 1960 Kodiak

Post by bowdoc » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:33 am

At my age sometimes I can't remember what I ate for breakfast 10 minutes ago.I believe I actually sold that bow to someone else and then they sold it on ebay ? about 7-8 years ago.Great shooter but was sold to that person as a as is basket case shooter.
If I were going to be using said bow I would be more then happy to have a look at it and see if it could be done a bit better maybe a new white overlay ? and make the correct repair on the shelf ?
I would like to add just one thing and that will be enough said for me I purchased a 1959 Kodiak off ebay for about 190.00 and some change(under 200.00).Ya'all still with me here ? I sold that bow last summer for 756.00 after restoration go figure huh ? new bright red tip overlays and all.Pretty good investment and actually better turn around on profit then 90% of our 401's are doing right now.I make my living restoring old bows and trust me guy's folks do not send many mint condition bows to be restored.They all look a bit more like Wade's loaner.
Our personal shooter or choice of personal shooters are not and should not be judged like a car contest.Cars are decided apone by others whom do not own or drive said car.I for one do not want someone else judgeing how they like my personal shooter.Thier not going to be shooting it ?? bd

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