re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Dedicated to the Gunsmith and his craft. A place to talk building techninques, design, and build-alongs.

re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:38 pm

Ok so it seems that im getting a lot of PM;s about this so I figured I would do a photo tutorial on how I do these ..
Ok so I got in a old Jukar Kentucky that a lady wants redone as a gift for her son .
So here it is
DSC01209.JPG
DSC01209.JPG (76.13 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01210.JPG
DSC01210.JPG (26.56 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01208.JPG
DSC01208.JPG (27.81 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01207.JPG
DSC01207.JPG (35.11 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01203.JPG
DSC01203.JPG (43.92 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


ok as you can see , its in good shape and in fact i believe it has never been fired . ore does have alittle serface rust , but that will clean up

so now the first thing i do is take the gun apart . i then start with the brass joiner and the nose cap . these will end up defining the shape . as you can see im going to be removing alot of material

DSC01212.JPG
DSC01212.JPG (86.91 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01213.JPG
DSC01213.JPG (32.13 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


once i have these roughed out i then place them back onto the stock . these photos show just how much wood needs to be removed

DSC01214.JPG
DSC01214.JPG (32.54 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01215.JPG
DSC01215.JPG (29.42 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


now next i move back to the trigger and trigger guard . The triggers on these rifles are normally set very low . In other words they have a big fat belly . Also the triggers normally have a lot of slop in them. So what I do is take note of where the sear sets with the hammer down and at full cock ,in relation to the lock plate . i then mark that location on the outside of the lockplate and transfer that mark onto the stock . then remove the lock

DSC01216.JPG
DSC01216.JPG (32.2 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01217.JPG
DSC01217.JPG (36.48 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01218.JPG
DSC01218.JPG (39.53 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


this allows me to see just how deep the trigger can go
DSC01219.JPG
DSC01219.JPG (39.03 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


now you can go deeper but remember that you have to stay in relation to the bottom of the rifle , which we defined by re shaping the brass joiner plate . so going deeper wont help things any .
so as you can see i can move the trigger up just over 1/4 inch . which means the Trigger guard will go up that much as well . again i double check my brass joiner and , all is well . so now we have the trigger up where it belongs
DSC01221.JPG
DSC01221.JPG (41.13 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


now i deepen the Trigger guard inlet the same amount so that it comes in contact with the trigger plate
DSC01220.JPG
DSC01220.JPG (30.46 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


while doing the above will not let you get the slim belly that a custom stock will give you , it will slim up the rifle alot .

Ok so now we start shaping . first thing i do is proportion the forearm so that t is the same length as mesured from the front of the lock plate to the front of the comb
DSC01225.JPG
DSC01225.JPG (66.98 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


thus i have to cut back the forearm, and thus lengthening the fore stock
DSC01222.JPG
DSC01222.JPG (71.95 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


now i go up and cut the forearm back about 3/4 of an inch back of the nose cap . in the end this will not only help in the balance but give the impression of a longer more slim rifle .
DSC01223.JPG
DSC01223.JPG (75.35 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


with that done i then place the barrel back into the stock and start my shaping bring the forestock down to the shape of the nose cap , thinning it out and at the same time reducing the depth of the Ramrod channel . carry this right on back to a couple inches in front of the lock mortises
DSC01224.JPG
DSC01224.JPG (52.82 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01227.JPG
DSC01227.JPG (77.07 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


ok so now i rough out the general shape of the lock and side plate mortises . making sure that their start and stop points match . while their shapes are diffrent , they must be the same leanght and width . their start and stop points must match or the gun will look twisted when viewd from the top or bottom
DSC01229.JPG
DSC01229.JPG (75.89 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01230.JPG
DSC01230.JPG (69.79 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


i then remove that wood and blend the shape in a cup shape ,up to the tang . the mortices also blend in with the Diagonals flats of the barrel
DSC01234.JPG
DSC01234.JPG (49.56 KiB) Viewed 15376 times

DSC01235.JPG
DSC01235.JPG (30.43 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


now i move back and releave the nose of the comb cupping out each side of the nose ,so as to start forming and defining the wrist. which by the way will also slim down a lot
DSC01231.JPG
DSC01231.JPG (67.89 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


this also causes us to need to clean up the shape of the buttstock and blend it all into the buttplate and toe plate
DSC01236.JPG
DSC01236.JPG (67.34 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


ok so after about 5 hours of work we now have this
DSC01233.JPG
DSC01233.JPG (69.54 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


to give you some idea how much wood we have taken off this rifle . remember that the barrel pins were flush with the wood of the forestock . if i place the pins back into the stock , they now look like this
DSC01232.JPG
DSC01232.JPG (25.82 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


ok so , thats it for tonight . I think you all can see just how much these rifles can be cleaned up and how much thinner in fraim the can be .
ill post more in a couple days
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby jcporter@work » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:33 am

Never thought of attacking the nose cap when I redid my CVA pistol. May have to go back over it. Can't wait to see how the rifle looks when finished.
"Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson
or as Charlie Daniels says
"Let's ride boys ... we need a thousand Paul Reveres
jcporter@work
5X5 Bull
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:41 am

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:36 am

at this point there will still be alot of changes . ill be adding a patch box , the lock mortices will be cleaned up . the forestock will become even thinner . wrist will become thinner . i also will be modifying the entry thimble and moving the RR pipes .
keep in mind that everything is just roughed out at this point .
but thinks are going to go quick as i have to diliver this gun in 2 more weeks . so she has to be in oil by next weekend
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby TradRag » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:24 am

Awesome! Can't wait :!: :!:
"Ne Desit Virtus" ("Let Valor Not Fail")
Oklahoma Selfbow Society Charter Member
Bowhunting Council of Oklahoma Member
PBS Associate Member
Founder of TradRag.com
User avatar
TradRag
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3101
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:59 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:26 pm

Ok so now we start into the actual final shaping . Cleaning up the lock mortises , wrists , butt and doing a little relief along the RR channel .
Now , myself I have never liked the entry pipe on these so im going to change it .
So laying out my template on a piece of sheet brass I cut it out , bend it around a drill bit that is the same size as the original pipe. Then I silver solder the two together

DSC01240.JPG
DSC01240.JPG (57.37 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01241.JPG
DSC01241.JPG (46.21 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


Now I finish sand to 250 grit .
DSC01245.JPG
DSC01245.JPG (30.21 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01243.JPG
DSC01243.JPG (24.72 KiB) Viewed 15376 times



Then whisker and stain and oil . so this is what we now have

DSC01254.JPG
DSC01254.JPG (34.65 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01252.JPG
DSC01252.JPG (66.88 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01251.JPG
DSC01251.JPG (72.79 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01250.JPG
DSC01250.JPG (73.47 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01249.JPG
DSC01249.JPG (61.37 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01248.JPG
DSC01248.JPG (63.62 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01247.JPG
DSC01247.JPG (66.26 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01246.JPG
DSC01246.JPG (67.9 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


Ok so now after alittle engraving this is what we have . As you can see , much different then what we started with . Notice how defining the wrist , relieving the comb , giving the rifle some lock mortises and taking down and blending the stock into the barrel , really give the rifle a much slimmer and nicer look . doesn’t take all that much work either

DSC01269.JPG
DSC01269.JPG (55.29 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01268.JPG
DSC01268.JPG (60.25 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01267.JPG
DSC01267.JPG (72.09 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01246.JPG
DSC01246.JPG (67.9 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01266.JPG
DSC01266.JPG (55.28 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


DSC01265.JPG
DSC01265.JPG (22.33 KiB) Viewed 15376 times


since I'm updating this . here is an alternate patch box I did for another rifle just to show the possibilities
20170213_131841.jpeg



so thats it . really not all that much
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Linc » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:51 am

Now that is a major change from the original design. You made a silk purse from a sows ear so to speak. :77:
User avatar
Linc
4X4 Bull
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:39 pm
Location: Martville,NY

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby petew » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:54 pm

Not that much??
For you it may be true but for those of learning, it is a marvel.
Well done, thanks for sharing your talent, and giving us some insight.
Pete
Pete ward
Share your knowledge and information
www.peteward.com
User avatar
petew
5X5 Bull
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:38 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:13 am

really pete , its not all that much . its just alittle more work spending a few more hours at it .
while they cant ever become as slim as they should be , they can be taken down alot more . thus alot nice rifle be made .
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby petew » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:48 pm

Well Cap, there are a lot of us that just don't have the courage "YET" to tip toe to where you walk.
These projects give up the insight to what can be done.

Pete
User avatar
petew
5X5 Bull
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:38 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby jcporter@work » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:17 pm

Cap, do you have a photo of the finished nose cap? I was curious as to the screws you used to attach it and if you grouns then down to match the new nose cap profile. I wouldn't thought when looking at these before starting that you could make that much difference. Amazing transformation.
"Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson
or as Charlie Daniels says
"Let's ride boys ... we need a thousand Paul Reveres
jcporter@work
5X5 Bull
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:41 am

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:41 am

no im sorry , i didn’t think to take another shot of the nose cap and the rifle is already gone
however i can tell you i use the factory brass screws . the threaded section must be shortened and you have to re counter sink the holes in the nose cap . Depending on how you shape the curve to the belly of the cap , will dictate if you have to touch up the screws with paper and a file .
But if you leave it alittle flatter on the bottom , the screws will only need shortened.

Also a NOTE here on the nose cap .
These caps are thicker in the front then in the back . So when you make your curve you must keep in mind that you cannot go smaller then what the back of the cap will allow.
also know that your going to run into voids in the brass . the castings on these rifles are very poor . i have yet to take one down that did not end up with a couple pockets that end up showing . nothing you can do about that . I have had some luck with filling the deeper and larger pockets with soft copper .
its shows less but you can still see it when you look close or as the coper tarnishs
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby jcporter@work » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:31 pm

Thanks Capt. I may go over my CVA pistol again so I can trim the nosecap. I added a tang to the rear pipe similiar to yours (as in simpler) and that made a world of difference in the appearance.
"Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson
or as Charlie Daniels says
"Let's ride boys ... we need a thousand Paul Reveres
jcporter@work
5X5 Bull
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:41 am

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Newkirk Jerry » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:06 pm

Wow!! You ain't scared to whip out the rasp and go to town on some wood are you Cap? That looked great. I like the dark stain you gave it. I wouldn't mind doing my renegade that dark color. It's due some attention.
User avatar
Newkirk Jerry
5X5 Bull
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:19 pm
Location: Newkirk, OK

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Trkytalk » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:12 am

Morning. I recently joined TradRag forum and like what I see on this website.
After my post @ Jukar Guns one of the replies said that CapChee could possibly help with me research. I am looking for a break down of parts and the proper names of the various pieces of these guns. I recently enjoyed the pictorial that CapChee has on the forum as well.
Any advice or where to find reference to the Jukar line of guns would be appreciated.
After speaking with CVA rep I was told that CVA has not even made traditional guns for about the last 20 years.
Have a great day,
Tom, aka-trkytalk
Trkytalk
Spike Bull
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:11 pm

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:09 pm

CVA never made any guns, they were importers and earlier on they had contracts to build guns for them .
as to the parts lists and names for Jukar . the names of the parts are exactly the same as with a CVA .
references are pretty easy to find . a Google search for Jukar followed by the guns name , IE Kentucky , Hawkens , or any number of pistols from single barreled muzzleloaders to brass framed revolving pistols,……. will pull up photos .
If you need more help , please just ask, ill help all I can
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Trkytalk » Thu May 02, 2013 8:33 am

CaptChee,
Thank you for your advice and after my Google search I believe the Jukar rifle I have is a Kentuckey Long Rifle . I hope to clean this MZL LDR rifle up and will keep you in mind with follow up on my progress.
Have a good day,
Tom (aka-trkytalk)
Trkytalk
Spike Bull
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:11 pm

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby jcporter@work » Fri May 03, 2013 1:04 pm

Picked up one of these in trade at lunch so I'll see what mine ends up looking like. Rain is predicted for this weekend so I may even get started on it.
"Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson
or as Charlie Daniels says
"Let's ride boys ... we need a thousand Paul Reveres
jcporter@work
5X5 Bull
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:41 am

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Sun May 05, 2013 8:07 am

Very Good JC . be sure to post your work . add it here to this thread if you like .
if you need any advice or have questions , ill help all i can from this end
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby jcporter@work » Wed May 08, 2013 10:27 am

I see what you ment about casting voids. Only ran into a couple in the nosecap. I spent an hour or so on the nose cap and joiner plate and still think I need to go a little smaller on the nose cap. When I got started on this it was evident that the rifle had never been fired. Not sure of the age of this one, but for this type rifel, it was really pristine. I may use aqua fortis on the wood as it has some interesting grain in the butt portion of the stock. If it took me an hour on the brass, I figure 10-12 hours on the wood and I can put it back together. Minor snag, my brother stopped by while I was filing on the joiner plate and I dropped it in the yard while showing him the garden. Will have to find it after work today.
"Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson
or as Charlie Daniels says
"Let's ride boys ... we need a thousand Paul Reveres
jcporter@work
5X5 Bull
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:41 am

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Winter Hawk » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:13 pm

So JC, where are you at with this project? Photos are needed also....

-Kees-
User avatar
Winter Hawk
Royal (6X6) Bull
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: S.E. Ohio, formerly S.E. Alaska

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Lobo74 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:58 pm

I have one that is my first build. I do not want the brass joiner. Could I replace it with a wooden spacer the same thickness, use the locating pins through it, and glue the forestock to it, and the stock to that making it a one piece stock?

Thanks for any advice.
Lobo74
Spike Bull
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:51 pm

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:26 am

if thats what you want to do , yes you can . myself i wouldnt use the metal locating pins but replace then with dowels . then glue the whole thing up tight
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Lobo74 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:44 am

Thank you Captchee. I appreciate your input. I have read and re-read this particular thread many, many times. Your work is certainly a mark to shot for. I will dowel and glue rather than pin and glue. Now just need to work up a wood blank that is strong and firm, and that will blend well. Now, as long as I'm in the planning phase, some sort of a peep for these old eyes is in the mix too. Something like this looks period correct . . .
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/imgPart/r ... p-16_1.jpg

But I am thinking that the distance down the barrel away from the eye reduces the effectivity of this peep.
Lobo74
Spike Bull
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:51 pm

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby wolfpack69 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:47 pm

Cap can you repost the pics to this too plz. This is the first one of your works I had seen and got me hooked. I am the proud owner of 3 of these and would like to do a rework on one and a restock on the other.
Thanks in advance
wolfpack69
Spike Bull
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:30 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby wolfpack69 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:54 am

Has anyone heard from Captchee ? How is he after his surgery. Thought I might ask hope all has a great new year.
wolfpack69
Spike Bull
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:30 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:30 am

all is somewhat well . I'm back but sleep a lot . walking on my own hope to be back to work very soon .
have a great new years folks
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby WinterHawk » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:51 pm

Heck, I sleep a lot anymore, and I didn't have brain surgery! Glad to hear your walking. Keep us posted on your recovery, please!

~WH~
~WH~
WinterHawk
4X4 Bull
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:55 pm

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Lobo74 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:54 pm

Captchee thank you for the inspiration. I was trying for an early full stock plains rifle with the CVA Kentucky kit. I still have the touch hole vent liner to drill and install, and I am going to brown the brass, but other than that she is done.

roughed in.jpg
Lobo74
Spike Bull
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:51 pm

Re: re building a CVA, Jukar / traditions Kentucky

Postby Captchee » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:53 pm

looks good
User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Idaho


Return to The Gunsmiths Workbench

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests